Is something wrong with art?

[Symphoneus]

DISCLAIMER: I'm ranting

I'm sure many people have their own views on what art is, what it is for, and how it should be pursued. For me, art has always been about inspiration. There are many sad truths to life, and very few of these things can be easily accepted by your average individual. I've always seen art as a tool through which humans might better face reality. With art, people can use emotional triggers to communicate various ideas, and because of this they are able to present concepts that would otherwise be difficult to express.

I will be honest here, I am a very conceited man. Whether these things are true or my own fabrication, I see myself as being both exceedingly intelligent, and moderately more creative than your average person. I hold no shame in talking down to others. These people have literally asked that I treat them in such a manner (most people don't understand me unless I limit myself when speaking to them). I'm also rather insightful, which allows me to solve certain problems before most. Regardless of the reality in these statements, I see them all as true, and this has caused me to become very conceited.
I've always been a bit like this (I'm getting worse though 8p)...

As a child, I would spend most of my time away from the other children, but this had rarely been by choice. I was a bad student, and so being allowed to attend recess was uncommon, I'd also spent a great deal of my school life in "advanced study groups" (I wonder what they all thought was wrong with me). By the time most other boys were old enough to take interest in girls, I was still very much afraid of them. I became an isolate. After grade school, I stopped attending school regularly, and after flunking my first year in high school, I dropped out (I was not old enough to obtain my GED, so I waited). During this time I was diagnosed with Crohn's Disease, and I am currently considered disabled.
I am a jobless virgin, who is currently living at home with his mother, and my greatest desire in life is to write a comic book (life's good for a laugh).

Now onto my real concerns -- As I seek out advise from those in my community, with the intention of advancing in my pursuits, it seems that I keep getting the same kind of responses. "That's really good! Now you just need to make it into something!"
WTF?!?!? How does this answer any of my questions?
I'm trying to ask people things like "Are the eyes to big?" or even "Do like the eyes at all?" and I'm getting responses like, "It's good, now you just have to make one these pictures into something."
I'm having a really hard time dealing with all this. Honestly I'm confused...
Do people not understand what I'm asking them, or is there something that I myself don't understand? I've received no training, and the only person I know who takes interest in anything "Art" is my cousin (she does sometimes comment on certain features of my drawings 8D).
I want my art to be appealing (I want to be popular 8p), and so it does me no good, only seeking technical advise from books. I need human critique if I'm to advance as an "Artist" otherwise if feel like I'm just a pencil pusher...

[ehoeveler]

Hi, Nikolas - The main thing any and every artist has to hold on to is his life experience and of course, his soul. Put your soul into your work first and then worry about the technical aspects. If you want to do comics, go for it and don't be afraid of what they look like, at first. I hope we can help you with
the tech part, if needed. Thank You, E

[Symphoneus]

Ehoeveler, I thank you for your response, and I wish dearly for you understand that I mean this in true gratitude.
Regardless, I can take no solace in those words that you've decided to deliver.

I am fully determined in my pursuit of art. Any advice such as "Put your soul into your work", can only come to me as insipid. Ehoeveler (or anyone else), understand this, I wear my soul as clearly as my skin, and I've placed it into every step which I have ever taken.
As to my experiences, you lie to yourself in thinking that any creation has ever lacked the sum of it's creator's experience. I choose those images I draw, they are not chosen for me, and in rendering these images I do not link one dot to the other. I seek through my mind, for any image which might add to this current one. In doing this, I do not simply wait for my hand to finish the picture for me, I pursue upon myself at those most difficult portions, as I search harder for the "true" image I seek to depict. If the picture before me seems untrue to this image, I erase that picture to start again.
Even when I'm trying to come up with "something easy to draw", I do not slack in any of these virtues.
I have done my best to understand the nature of human vision, and our responses towards dimorphism. I realize that a person can only recognize so many unique figures in a space, and that detail can be achieved through absence of attention.

I feel the reason I haven't made a comic is because of my lack of direction...
...I also feel like that's a lame self-excuse....

[Symphoneus]

It feels a lot like when it come to giving "art advise" everybody read the same d*** book!

[ehoeveler]

[quote]I am fully determined in my pursuit of art. Any advice such as "Put your soul into your work", can only come to me as insipid. Ehoeveler (or anyone else), understand this, I wear my soul as clearly as my skin, and I've placed it into every step which I have ever taken.[/quote]
Your own cynical attitude looks for the negative in my attempt to help. What a pity.
Maybe another moderator can look at your work. You want to argue with someone but
it shall not be with me.

[jenn_iam]

Symphoneus,
I have been a member of this forum since 2006, and ehoeveler, shortly after... we, along with all of the moderators (and many of the membership) on this forum have seen many artists, of varying levels of talents, take steps to join this community, share their work and accept and give positive criticisms, in an effort to expand their own creative pursuits as well as share tips & tricks that they, themselves have learned in like art projects. I can attest that when ehoeveler shares 'Put your soul into your work" it speaks to the passion of creating art and is not meant as demeaning or patronizing in any way. Nor is it meant as saying you do not do so already. WE all have a past, chalked full of good and bad experiences and personalities that come through and feed into our creative outlets, of which depending on our medium, tells the story of which we wish to convey. Your's is comic books / art.

That said, I have worked with comic artists before, have a number of very talented comic artist friends that are in varying levels of the profession, from amature, to self-published, to professional. So, knowing the journey, and understanding that type of art form.. I have a few questions for you, while understanding you want to do comic books.
1 - Do you want to create the comic book, story and art? Or, only the art?
2 - is there a particular style of Comic Art you are drawn to? Old School DC/Marvel, Stan Lee Style (Spiderman, Ironman, Superman, etc) or Frank Miller (Joker in batman), or do you like art like Sylvestri or McFarlane (Fathom, Spawn, Darkenss or Witchblade)? Or do you like more cartoony, like Jonen Vasques (johnny the homicidal Maniac & Invader Zim).
3 - if you are wanting to create the whole comic... that is GREAT! then you can start in two ways... with developing the characters and the world, then create a story around them.. or Create the Story, then develop the Characters look and world to match. Which are you thinking is the way your are going to go?
4 - if you are working with a writer or writing team on a comic, the same questions apply as above.

Knowing this will help those who review your work, provide you feedback that will help you refine your work to your desired result).

Developing a comic book isnt easy, but it can be a lot of fun and ememsely rewarding. But it takes lots of well thought out planning. A story that you can break out into scenes (similarly to a script, It requires understanding layout and how to convey the action or the element (unspoken story element). Of course it requires strong character designs, but also understanding that their environment (like in film) is a character too. It would look odd to have the McFarlane's character Spawn or Sam Keith's The Maxx in Whoville, right? Then a plan, a timeline to accomplish the project. It seems daunting at first, but it is all important, and well worth it.

So, onto some advice (outside of the above questions).
1 - people often will say, that's good, or whatever, not because they have nothing to offer your sharing to them. But because they truly believe that, and understand that its a worthy cause to encourage the artist in you. Also, they may not have anything beyond that, because while they can recognise the value in the art, they are not at a level to provide critique or do not feel they are qualified. Either way, just take the compliment, rather than get upset because they didn't give you hard criticisms. Be humble, say thankful.. it is possible you asked for critique from not the right people. Its important here to keep the tone, constructive and positive, no one is here to argue or demean in their attempts to help other artist reach their potentials.

2 - The Comic industry like all art, is very competitive. Persevere if that is your dream. Know that there will be rejections and hard to hear critiques.. Take all feedback as valuable, rather than negitive.

3 - When posting / sharing a peice here. such as a character - if you want to get feedback on something specific... mention the areas that you are wanting feedback on, or areas you think you are having difficulties nailing. That way some of the feedback is more honed and not always general.

Ok.. so that is a start.
Feel free to send me a message if you have specific Comic questions, etc., I will be happy to help if I can.

[Symphoneus]

To: Ehoeveler
I want to apologize for the offense which I have caused.
I am not asking you to revise your opinion of me, as it is largely true. I am indeed a cynic, and I do often look for the bad in things well before seeking the good.
I started this thread in an act of frustration, and in doing this I unfairly directed that frustration towards you. Again I must apologize.
I have thought over the advise from your first post (it seems to have been edited), while reading the advise given by jenn_iam, and must admit that I did not give your words the proper level of consideration. This is especially true, in regard to your advise towards mindfulness. This seems to be a skill which I sorely lack.

Ehoeveler, I act now in sincere apology, but please know that I do not ask for your forgiveness. I strongly believe that such things are to be earned by the offender, not given from his victim. Instead I ask that you regard the thanks which I now offer to both of your responses. I will try to attend to my proceedings in a more tactful manner, and If we should bump into each other on this forum again, I will attempt to offer proper credence towards that attention which you have shown to me.

Still, I must end with this. I am most certainly very cynical, and I'm remarkably argumentative (In short I'm an ***). If these are things that you truly wish to avoid Ehoeveler, then I must ask that you avoid me.

To: Jen_jam
I thank you for your attention. You were correct, in that I regarded Ehoeveler's advise as patronizing. I have since reconsidered the overall meaning of his post (which I had ignored at that time), and in doing so, I must apologize to you as well. This was certainly a terrible way for me to show my greetings...

As to your questions:
1. I am attempting to develop a "unique" style for my comic. In terms of genre I'm thinking Epic Fantasy (in the same genre as the Dungeons and Dragons games), having looked at a large amount of fantasy art, I want to capture something similar to the 'feel' I received from this art when I was little (realistic people in unrealistic settings). Gerald Brom and the original Eberron[D&D world setting] artwork (sadly, I'm unaware of who's work this was) are probably my two biggest inspirations.
2. I dream of creating a comic entirely on my own (my own art, my own story, my own style). Realistically, I remain open to the idea of working alongside an author, or even other artists. It is my belief that people are more dedicated in their actions when working in a (friendly) group, And I have always noticed myself as being more creative, when I'm drawing "for other people".
3/4. I have actually just come up with a basic story outline for a comic I now intend on creating (I'm only a few days into it). I'm now working to develop a few characters (faces and bodies). These are the character I intend to appear in my Issue #1.
I will next begin working on a basic set of clothing and gear for these character to be presented in.
After this I intend to work on world design and architecture. I will also try working on various cultural/monster influences, from the story perspective.
I then plan on returning to character designs, reworking the character's outfits to better fit with the various settings I intend for my world. I also hope to begin expanding the overall story and the personalities of my characters during this phase.
I don't think I'll do anything with side characters (or side settings) until I've progressed into the actual writing and development of my comic.
I want most visual aspects of my comic established before doing any in-depth story development.


Jenn_Jam, I must once again thank you for the time, and the consideration which you have shown. I will strive to retain this advise which you have given me (in all things, not only my art).
I've been living in a bit of a shell for awhile, and I'm only now trying to work my way out this. I have not taken the proper time to review things from the perspective of others. Surely this is something which I should be more considerate of...

[ehoeveler]

Well, thank you for the apology but if you do act like an a**, I will avoid ya!
Take care and look for the good inside yourself. As well, surround yourself w/people
who see the good in you, for daily affirmations. E

[Artshedonline]

Well said Ehoeveler, I agree with you just do your work and put your soul into work. Its great idea for artists.

[eddieblz]

Symphoneus,
I've found this to be one of the better forums when it come to well thought out critics. I've never found the critics here not to be patronizing rather I've they take a look at my art from a different perspective than I do. I see a particular peice I'm working on as one thing and others see it as another. What is nice about this forum is that those giving the critics here (particularly E) are able to relate their perspective in an understandable way. Jenn puts it into the right perspective when she said we need to be thankful and HUMBLE for the critics.
You probably will never totally get the type of response your looking for because each individual in this world looks at things in their own unique way as you, I, E, Jenn and evey one else does. This keeps things interesting and seeing your art from others perspectives will help you to polish your skills making your art more universally appealing if that is your final goal. Which is what most comic book artists are striving for. (It's not epic if no one else thinks it is.) Critics will help you to reach that goal.
I've been in and out of this business a long time. Jenn gave a very good synopses on what it takes to create a comic book. If this is your first attempt take all the criticism you can get, good, bad or indifferent. Try to see how it applies, use it as a fine polish.
Remember a good critic to your work makes you famous, A bad critic makes you a hero, No critic makes you unknown. Don't chase away the critics.

Good luck on your endeavor.
Eddie

[ehoeveler]

Wow. Thanks, Eddie!

[joeygn72]

I am questioning if you can figure things out before most people why would you then come here for artistic advice?

[joeygn72]

Not to be mean but you stated you're "moderately more creative than the average person" I think your art is garbage to be honest. Theres no depth,its just lines on paper. The form is trash and anyone with a pencil can put a single drawing in the middle of a page. You have no sense of composition and your idea of lighting is laughable at best.

[Singular]

I am questioning if you can figure things out before most people why would you then come here for artistic advice?

Everyone needs advice at some point in their lives. Doesn't matter if you can figure it out on your own or not. You sound like you are looking to be confrontational.

[joeygn72]

I just figured someone with an ego that big wouldn't need help of any sort. Just asking him why if he can figure things out before everyone else is he asking for help.. Just asking a question...

[Singular]

Not to be mean but you stated you're "moderately more creative than the average person" I think your art is garbage to be honest. Theres no depth,its just lines on paper. The form is trash and anyone with a pencil can put a single drawing in the middle of a page. You have no sense of composition and your idea of lighting is laughable at best.

Not to be mean you say. Then what exactly do you mean to be? It doesn't sound like you are being nice or constructive. And to be honest, I know I do not like the way you communicate. We are a friendly community and do things a bit differently. We actually like to help people through constructive feedback. I am not censoring anyone, but also do not toleralte senseless bashing. So just a warning to you to think about how you post on this site. I have no problem deleting your account.

all the best,
Joe

[joeygn72]

Under normal circumstances I communicate politely. I just thought this guys ego needed to be knocked back a couple notches. Your warning is taken and I will "play nice" from now on..

[Singular]

Under normal circumstances I communicate politely. I just thought this guys ego needed to be knocked back a couple notches. Your warning is taken and I will "play nice" from now on..

Thank you!

[jenn_iam]

AAwww.. thanks Eddie!

[Marta121]

Modern art is the creative world's response to the rationalist practices and perspectives of the new lives and ideas provided by the technological advances of the industrial age that caused contemporary society to manifest itself in new ways compared to the past. Artists worked to represent their experience of the newness of modern life in appropriately innovative ways.
http://visengine.com